Welcome to BOOK CLUB, a joint venture between me and Jen from Devourer of Books. Today we are going to be chatting about The Convert, by Deborah Baker which was published by Graywolf Press.
The Last Convert tells the story of Margaret Marcus, a young Jewish woman who renounces her faith, converts to Islam and travels to Pakistan under the guardianship of her adoptive father Mawlana Abul Ala Mawdudi, the intellectual leader of Jamaat-e-Islami, a political organization which laid the foundation for militant and political Islam. Marcus becomes Maryam Jameelah, who in her new country writes extensively and famously of the problematic nature of “The West.”
If you plan on participating in today’s BOOK CLUB, please consider subscribing to comments at the bottom of the page. I will be updating this post with new questions and ideas over the course of the day.
So…to start:
- What were your general impressions of the book?
- Is this a book you would have read had you not been reading it for a book club?
- The Convert deviates from the traditional structure of a biography, in what ways, if any, did this enhance your reading of the book and in what ways, if any, was this problematic. How does the way the book is arranged help or detract from the ideas it contains?
- What role did Margaret Marcus’ parents and guardian play in her life? Was anyone of them a more critical part in the life that she led and the choices she made?
- How did you experience this book as you read it? Were you pulled into the story, or did it take awhile for you to get into?
- The Last Convert is subtitled, A Tale of Exile and Extremism. Baker stresses that she chose to make the word tale a part of the title very purposefully. Did the subtitle shape your expectations or the way that you read the story?
- What surprised you most about reading The Convert? Is there a person in the book you would most like to meet? What would you want to discuss with them?
- Baker and the research she did on Margaret Marcus/Maryam Jameelah quickly became a part of this story. What did you learn about her as the story progressed? Did her story enhance your understanding of the subject matter?
- What kinds of questions did you have during your reading? Were they answered?
- What questions did you have for the group?
12 review copies of The Last Convert were provided by Graywolf Press in order to facilitate this discussion. Thank you so much!
Other reviews and posts:
Hi all – I am excited to talk about the book – will be back a little later to answer the above questions….
Just letting you all know that I am having major computer problems (I’m on my work computer right now). My laptop crashed last night and my brand new desktop is going back to the store today because of major issues (primarily will not let me access the internet without a 2 minute or more delay!!!! NOT good!). So I am going to be using my work computer when I can today to drop in and out of the discussion…also my review (which I had hoped to post this morning) will be delayed because of me not having my personal computer to use.
Wendy´s last [type] ..Fighting Back
I found this book really unsettling to read, on a couple of levels — reading Maryam’s story and the ideas of political Islam and then find out at the end about how much of the book could have been fiction (either through Maryam’s own falsities and though the liberties the author took in reconstructing the story).
Just in general, the idea of political Islam is a hard one for me to understand. I think reading those ideas straight from a person’s mouth — for the most part — was uncomfortable and difficult.
But the way the author constructed the book was also unsettling — the way details start to come out about Maryam’s mental illnesses and her time with the family in Pakistan really upends the kind of story I initially thought I would be reading. And then to find out about the methodology at the end… it makes everything suspect.
There’s soooo much to talk about with this book, I’m struggling with where to start!
I agree with you, Kim…the book was unsettling and it bothered me that we couldn’t get a handle on what was truth and what was fiction. I found myself confused at times with the narration – the political stuff of Islam is very complex and although I think the author did a laudable job of explaining some of it, there were gaps for me.
Wendy´s last [type] ..Fighting Back
Let me begin by saying that I haven’t read this book and, truth be told, hadn’t heard about it until I saw it here and on Sophisticated Dorkiness’ site. Here’s what I said in her comments:
It’s so interesting the amount of books/articles/etc that are now out there about Islam. Unfortunately, I feel like in the US we really only get to hear about the extreme end of it all in books like this one. I am not denying that people like Maryam and her group in Pakistan exist, obviously they do and they scare me. However, I wish Americans (westerners?) could also read of regular Muslims who are just like us and I think it would reduce the “us and them” that currently exists. It reminds me of the Cold War when communists/Soviets were the big scary enemy. Ok, sorry to rant. I do think books like this are important, I just wish the publishing world had more of a balance
I look forward to seeing what others think of the book.
Helen´s last [type] ..Its Monday! What are you reading
Thanks for weighing in, Helen…I think you make valid points. But I also think that this is an interesting story about a woman who was raised as a Jew, and so completely turned to Islam (at a relatively young age). In some ways, I think this book is more about mental illness than what would be the “norm!”
Wendy´s last [type] ..Fighting Back
I’m glad you raise the point about mental illness, Wendy. I’m really unsure what impression we’re supposed to be left with as far as the mental illness. Baker clearly didn’t buy the diagnoses of Peggy’s doctors in the U.S. and at times almost seemed to be suggesting that she was somewhere on the Austism spectrum. But then, the fact that she never flat out said that, in conjunction with my other questions about her motivations in writing this book, make me wonder if that is something that is a valid interpretation from Maryam’s life, or if Baker had other reasons for putting this interpretation forward.
Jen – Devourer of Books´s last [type] ..The Convert by Deborah Baker – Book Review
I was unsure of what we were supposed to get from the mental illness discussion as well. At first it seemed as though Baker really didn’t believe or buy into the diagnoses but then she takes a turn somewhere and seemed (to me) to suggest that her mental illness was sort of responsible for some of her beliefs or at least had a large hand in what was going on with them. She seemed to discount the diagnosis of crazy at first, but then played into it later when she is “uncovering” what “really” happened in Pakistan, especially when she talks about meeting her. I was left really confused as to what she ultimately wanted us to think about Maryam’s illness.
Jessica M.´s last [type] ..Mini Bookish Reviews – Contemporary YA Edition
I agree, Jessica – I think the author was basically saying that Maryam’s mental illness helped explain her conversion – and there is some literature about schizophrenia where some people with the disease DO become very obsessed with religious stuff to the extreme…so I wonder if this was part of what the author wanted us to believe.
Wendy´s last [type] ..Fighting Back
After reading Jen’s comment, I also think that some form of autism could push her toward her conversion. It could explain her obsession with Islam from an early age.
Michelle´s last [type] ..The Soundtrack to My Week
Happy Birthday to Josiah. Love his name, btw.I relly like rneidag your Sunday Salon posts. I love how you mix in a variety of interest areas. The top 20 most annoying book reviewer cliches was good. I am guilty of using sevearl of the cliches. I am thinking that using them here and there is not bad it is just the overuse. Something to keep in mind and besides, it is one person’s opinoin.The 100 awesome open courses looks interesting. I am going to look into this further.Thanks for sharing your discoveries..-= Deanna/ibeeeg´s last blog .. =-.
The part about Maryam’s mental illness was difficult for me. I couldn’t figure out what we were supposed to think about it. I don’t like the idea that we’re supposed to think there’s a connection between mental illness and radical Islam. But in Maryam’s case — given her early time in an institution, her time institutionalized in Pakistan, and her behavior when Baker met her — it’s hard not to think that’s the case.
Kim (Sophisticated Dorkiness)´s last [type] ..Review- ‘The Convert’ by Deborah Baker
I haven’t read the book either, but I wanted to add to Helen’s comment and mention a book I read recently that does offer up the viewpoint of an American Muslim who sounds like the total opposite of Maryam. The Faith Club is written by a Christian, a Jew and a Muslim who seek to better understand each other’s religions. While there was a lot I didn’t like about the book, the sections written by the Muslim were actually very interesting.
I absolutely would have picked this book up if it wasn’t for BOOK CLUB, but I almost wonder whether or not I would have finished it. The telling itself seemed very uneven to me, especially with that long section about Mawdudi so near the beginning. Yes, we did need some background on him I suppose, but I don’t think we needed quite so much background on him quite so early. The roughly middle-ish section that was Maryam letter after Maryam letter probably worked the best for me as far as actual reading.
I think I would really like to meet Deborah Baker, I had a hard time knowing just how to take what she was writing, because she hadn’t fully removed herself from the book, but she also didn’t really offer any information about her background that would let me understand her biases coming into The Convert. The lack of knowledge about where she was coming from made it hard for me to know exactly how to take the book.
Jen – Devourer of Books´s last [type] ..The Convert by Deborah Baker – Book Review
You make a good point about the author’s biases, Jen. If an author is going to inject themselves into a nonfiction book in this way — make their reporting and understanding of the subject part of the narrative — as readers, we need to know enough about them to understand where they’re coming from. I think Baker does this in some parts — talking about how she came to find Maryam’s story (as a biographer who looks for people on the fringes) and some of her experiences being in New York after 9/11. But none of it was very overt until we got to her letter to Maryam at the end, and that didn’t do much to tell me about Baker as much as her reactions to Maryam which were very emotional.
Kim (Sophisticated Dorkiness)´s last [type] ..Review- ‘The Convert’ by Deborah Baker
That letter to Maryam really bothered me. You’re right, it was extremely emotional and it completely called into question for me all of the reporting that she did, even more than other bits and pieces of bias I had seen along the way.
Jen – Devourer of Books´s last [type] ..The Convert by Deborah Baker – Book Review
That letter made me stop and go WTF? It seemed completely counter to any semblance of unbiased reporting she had tried to do before it. And as Nicole said, the 9/11 transition was really jarring too. It felt like an unnecessary personal intrusion into the story, though I’m sure she must have had a reason for including it. I just wish we knew her reasons for portions of the book like that.
Jessica M.´s last [type] ..Mini Bookish Reviews – Contemporary YA Edition
Yes, I feel like we really need to know her life/family story to put this all in context.
Jen – Devourer of Books´s last [type] ..The Convert by Deborah Baker – Book Review
Even the places where she mentions herself felt like she dropped in out of nowhere. The 9/11 transition was particularly jarring. I had no idea who she was talking about at first or what it had to do with anything. She really need to be a lot more clear. I think at points I felt that she was operating out of a bias against her subjects and their politics and I think it wasn’t appropriate for her to re-write those letters without more disclosure on her perspective. The fact that all her liberties are mentioned at the back of the book makes it hard for me to trust “non-fiction.” On the inside cover, this is labeled as a biography. Not cool.
Interestingly on the Indiebound site it is listed as “literary.” Seems much more apt.
Jen – Devourer of Books´s last [type] ..The Convert by Deborah Baker – Book Review
And that idea opens up the whole discussion of categorizing books. Do you think if it hadn’t had “biography” on it — something like “nonfiction novel” like Truman Capote used for In Cold Blood — you might have responded to the structure differently?
I’m not sure about that one myself.
Kim (Sophisticated Dorkiness)´s last [type] ..Review- ‘The Convert’ by Deborah Baker
Nonfiction novel would have made it somewhat easier for me to accept the liberties, but I think the disjointed structure still would have bothered me.
Jen – Devourer of Books´s last [type] ..The Convert by Deborah Baker – Book Review
I agree with all of you – I don’t think this is so much a biography as a re-telling of someone’s life and an interpretation of who that person was by an author who came to the story with her own issues. Like Nicole, I was completely confused (at first) with the 9-11 part of the book – it was introduced so abruptly as if we (the reader) should have known exactly what the author was thinking before reading what she wrote.
Wendy´s last [type] ..Fighting Back
I had a really hard time with all the different THINGS going on. Like Nicole and Wendy, the 9/11 section felt very jarring. I read half of it and then had to go back and start over once I realized what it actually was.
I’ve spent a good part of the novel thinking, what is real?
Michelle´s last [type] ..The Soundtrack to My Week
Michelle – I wonder if that is actually what the author may have been trying to do here – make us ponder reality.
Wendy´s last [type] ..Fighting Back
I think that would have helped me not feel betrayed and angry. The author’s note at the end is pretty mindblowing considering she tells us all this after the fact. I am glad that she is amused and thinks we should all just trust her, like Maryam apparently does On what basis. The story as written was still confusing and I don’t think it is served well being told in a non-linear fashion, but that happens. There wouldn’t be a negative in that, just a wish that she had structured the story another way.
I think calling it something like a “nonfiction novel” would’ve helped me feel less confused and angry at the end. Even just moving the author’s note to the beginning would’ve been a start. It felt so much more like a betrayal I think because it was at the end. Had I known about the liberties Baker took with editing Maryam’s words before I started the book, I think I would’ve been in a different mindset as I read.
That being said, I think the structure would’ve still bothered me. I liked the idea of using letters to tell part of the story, but I think the story didn’t flow the way it was written and I found myself confused at times as to why Baker was giving us information in the order and fashion that she did.
Jessica M.´s last [type] ..Mini Bookish Reviews – Contemporary YA Edition
I am SO looking forward to hearing what everyone else thinks about this book, chiefly because I am hoping to understand it more. I had major issues with the way Baker structured the book. It was jumpy and not easy for me to understand. I came away from it feeling like I didn’t really know much about Marcus/Jameelah and the authors placement in the book troubled me since she really didn’t explain her background. It was jarring the way she just appeared in the story. I also had major problems with her re-writing the letters, calling this a “tale” and saying that this is “fundamentally” non-fiction. As a reader I need to know that upfront, and not after I have read the book. I felt betrayed by her revelations. Some redaction is to be expected but re-writing and moving pieces of letters to a more appropriate place seems out of bounds even if Maryam’s voice “often came to me more easily than my own.’
I’m so glad to hear others had a hard time with this. I put it down several times and don’t know if I would have finished if not for this discussion. I’m still wondering what to make of it. How do you write a “fundamentally” non-fiction story. Don’t writers get sh*t for this. I really was angry when I finally finished this.
Martha@Hey, I want to read that´s last [type] ..Teaser Tuesday
I wonder if we’re all particularly sensitive to this post-Mortensen? I know that I already had my ARC, if not my finished copy by the time that story broke. Would we have been more accepting of her changing things around before that? I’m not sure.
Jen – Devourer of Books´s last [type] ..The Convert by Deborah Baker – Book Review
You know it’s funny, I heard the ads for James Fry being on Oprah to re-hash his whole to-do and I thought of this book. I wonder if there is some Mortensen backlash involved. But, I don’t know I still think I’d have a hard time with her, what-liberties?
Martha@Hey, I want to read that´s last [type] ..Teaser Tuesday
I’m glad to see that I wasn’t the only one who didn’t quite know how to deal with the book. On the one hand, there were parts of the story where I was really interested, engrossed even, in Maryam’s story — like during the discussion of Maryam’s mental illness. I really wanted to understand what was going on. But there were so many times when Deborah Baker seemed to go off in a random direction (like the 9/11 spiel) and I would get lost again.
I originally really liked some of the structure, specifically the use of Maryam’s letters, but I was definitely unhappy when I got to the note at the end where Baker says she edited and rewrote pieces of them. There was so much discussion about how Maryam maybe wasn’t being entirely truthful in her letters that it was upsetting when Baker said she had edited them further — how could we know at that point what was edited by Maryam from her story versus what was edited by Baker? Like others have said, without knowing more about Baker I don’t know what to think of all this. I wonder if it might have been a little easier to digest if the note had been at the beginning, so that it was clear from the start that she was editing/re-writing? I think that it might have been; I certainly would’ve felt less deceived.
I came away from the book at the end a little confused as to what Baker wanted the reader to take away from it. Was it really about this Jewish girl who became a Muslim, was it about the culture and issue of extremism with Maryam really serving as more an example, was it about her mental illness? I was unsure exactly what she was trying to accomplish by the end. If she was going to inject herself into the story, I wish she had done so a little more so that it might have been clearer what her intent really was and what her biases were.
Complaints aside, I do think The Convert was an interesting book. I was especially interested in the questions and details surrounding Maryam’s mental illness and institutionalization, and while I thought the background on Mawdudi was at times too much, I did find a lot of it interesting. I think the book was an interesting view into Maryam’s story; it was the structure and some of the uncertainty about Baker’s role/biases that really bothered me.
Jessica M.´s last [type] ..Mini Bookish Reviews – Contemporary YA Edition
I think there were maybe too many things that Bake was trying to do in a relatively short book. The focus either needed to be simplified and clarified, or everything needed to be better fleshed out (and structured) and the book needed to be longer.
Jen – Devourer of Books´s last [type] ..The Convert by Deborah Baker – Book Review
Ugh. She REWROTE the letters? This makes me mad because those are the only part of the book I am truly enjoying.
Michelle´s last [type] ..The Soundtrack to My Week
I’m sorry I haven’t come by yet for this discussion. I didn’t realize the time because I’ve been running around like crazy today. I’ve had an emergency here with two of my cats…one is sick and has to go to the vet and the other is missing. I promise I’ll be back as soon as I can. So sorry about this.
Amy´s last [type] ..Faith by Jennifer Haigh
Oh Amy,I’m sorry. Good luck with both kitties.
Martha@Hey, I want to read that´s last [type] ..Teaser Tuesday
Oh, so sorry to hear about your cats – hope all works out!
Wendy´s last [type] ..Fighting Back
Good luck. Sick/missing kitties are no fun. I’ve been there.
Michelle´s last [type] ..The Soundtrack to My Week
If anyone is interested, Graywolf Press posted a link on Twitter to this interview with Deborah Baker on The Takeaway (it’s about 8 minutes).
http://www.thetakeaway.org/2011/may/17/maryam-jameela-unlikely-jihadist/
There’s a snippet of a recording of Maryam Jameelah near the beginning. Also, I think it maybe helps answer some of our questions about what Baker was trying to accomplish.
Jessica M.´s last [type] ..Mini Bookish Reviews – Contemporary YA Edition
I’m sort of hesitant to watch the video, because I don’t want to be lulled into thinking it makes sense all of the sudden when it didn’t stand on its own in the first place.
Jen – Devourer of Books´s last [type] ..The Convert by Deborah Baker – Book Review
Oh, it definitely still doesn’t make complete sense, lol. But it was interesting to hear Baker say that to an extent the book was about her “conversation with the archive” and how she became disillusioned after meeting Maryam, when she realized how much of her she had sort of “made up” from reading her letters.
I don’t know that she even knew entirely what she was doing, but I think maybe Baker was trying to convey to some extent that disillusionment with the reality versus the letters. That said, I think there are probably better ways that she could’ve accomplished that if that was part of the goal. The structure is still too weird and she doesn’t define her role well enough in the book.
Jessica M.´s last [type] ..Mini Bookish Reviews – Contemporary YA Edition
Jessica, thanks for that link – although I still find myself wondering about the author’s insertion of herself into the story. I guess, she says that she had “imagined” who Maryam was, and then when she learned who she REALLY was she became disallusioned and so her story is how studying archives are not the same as actually knowing the person you are studying? Her tone at the end of the interview sounds like Baker is not only disallusioned with her subject, but angry too. I actually think that by the time she was done, Baker was no closer to understanding Maryam then when she started.
I also wanted to comment on her assertion that we should “trust” her interpretation – why should we? We don’t know the author or her motivations; why should we trust that HER interpretations (and revelations) are truth? I’m not even sure if Maryam understands why she converted. And changing her letters, seems just so odd to me.
On the other hand, I found much of this book interesting – especially the sections on mental illness. I even fourn some of the information on Maryam’s adoptive father interesting (although I got a little lost at times in all the politics).
Wendy´s last [type] ..Fighting Back
I agree Wendy — I don’t think she was any closer to understanding Maryam when she finished than she was when she first started. I got the impression from listening to her interview that she was exasperated with Maryam as well.
Jessica M.´s last [type] ..Mini Bookish Reviews – Contemporary YA Edition
Hi All–I was the editor for The Convert at Graywolf and wanted to thank you all for your serious engagement with the book and for expressing your qualms and concerns so forthrightly. I also thought I might try to address some of the issues you raise. The first thing I should say is that there are really two stories being told in this book: one is the story of Margaret Marcus / Maryam Jameelah’s strange life, but the second is a story about a problematic archive and what a biographer is to do when confronted with one. In that way it is also a book about WRITING (Maryam herself is a writer and fictionalizer, as we discover–her own letters are unreliable). To the extent that you’re not interested in the story of the archive, and Deb’s response to it, then you’re going to feel disappointed by the biography, which will seem unconventional or merely eccentric. We thought a LOT about where to put that note on methodology. In the end we decided that putting it up front would ruin the dramatic impact of the story–the reader doesn’t even know Maryam is still alive until the second half of the book. The Freud epigraph at the beginning of the book was added in the hope that it might serve as a kind of hint to the reader that what they are about to read is not entirely reliable…I’m sorry this didn’t work for all of you, but I’m glad the book is proving thought provoking.
Thanks for stopping by, Ethan…I think your comment greatly helps add another perspective to the discussion. It is interesting that Baker actually was writing about unreliability as well as giving us Maryam’s story…I think in many ways when one is relying only on letters or even oral history to create a biography, that it is inherently going to be unreliable (like that old saying that if 10 people witness an accident, you will get 10 stories of what REALLY happened). My problem with the book was not so much that, but that I felt a little “tricked” as a reader – I picked up a book whose title and blurb suggested a biography, and instead got something entirely different. I wonder if telling readers up front that this is creative nonfiction, and that some “facts” are actually not true, would help readers orient their expectations and therefore not feel disappointed?
Wendy´s last [type] ..Fighting Back
Hi Ethan! I want to echo Wendy’s thanks for stopping by. It’s always interesting to hear about why some editorial decisions were made — it adds a different perspective for readers. I also agree with Wendy’s comment that going into the book thinking it’s a biography and then finding something different was frustrating. As, I think, Jen said earlier, it could be we’re all just in a Post-Mortenson frame of mind with nonfiction and decisions like this one feel more frustrating than they otherwise might have.
That said, I’ve been talking about this book with a number of people because I was so struck by it, so I think maybe the “controversy” of sorts over the two stories and how they fit together remains a good thing in terms of writing nonfiction that gets people discussing these issues.
Kim (Sophisticated Dorkiness)´s last [type] ..Review- ‘The Convert’ by Deborah Baker
First, my confession: I haven’t finished the book yet. I am a horrible person, I know. But, in my defense, I was traveling the last few days and I really thought I would have more reading time than I actually did (which was practically none).
But I thought I could share my thoughts now and then I’ll come back and add them when I am actually finished, too. So here are my initial thoughts, then I will go up and read yours.
What were your general impressions of the book?
I think I need to save this one for later.
Is this a book you would have read had you not been reading it for a book club?
No. The subject is something I find interesting, but I don’t see myself picking it up if Jen and Nicole hadn’t pointed me toward it.
The Convert deviates from the traditional structure of a biography, in what ways, if any, did this enhance your reading of the book and in what ways, if any, was this problematic. How does the way the book is arranged help or detract from the ideas it contains?
I haven’t read many biographies but I don’t think I liked the format of this one. I didn’t really appreciate the author stepping in as a voice. I love the letters and I always wanted to get back to them. I understand the need to fill in the gaps but I wasn’t sure I needed to know the journey of how that happened.
What role did Margaret Marcus’ parents and guardian play in her life? Was anyone of them a more critical part in the life that she led and the choices she made?
I had this idea that it would be very hard to go live in a Muslim country as an American woman because we are all so independent. But Margaret never was very independent. Her family made all of the decisions for her, so going to Pakistan and having a guardian do it might not be so drastic.
How did you experience this book as you read it? Were you pulled into the story, or did it take awhile for you to get into?
I was pulled into it but there were times that I was thrown back out. The letters always brought me back.
The Last Convert is subtitled, A Tale of Exile and Extremism. Baker stresses that she chose to make the word tale a part of the title very purposefully. Did the subtitle shape your expectations or the way that you read the story?
Hmm…well a “tale” is often untrue or exaggerated. Since we can’t totally trust Margaret/Maryam as a reliable storyteller and a biographer cannot always get all of the facts right, I think it is fitting.
What surprised you most about reading The Convert? Is there a person in the book you would most like to meet? What would you want to discuss with them?
I don’t think I care much for her, but I’d like to meet Margaret/Maryam because I think she does have an interesting story to tell.
Baker and the research she did on Margaret Marcus/Maryam Jameelah quickly became a part of this story. What did you learn about her as the story progressed? Did her story enhance your understanding of the subject matter?
Like I said above, I didn’t necessarily like the author asserting herself into the book, but I am grateful for the additional information between letters.
What kinds of questions did you have during your reading? Were they answered?
I am still reading, so we shall see.
Michelle´s last [type] ..The Soundtrack to My Week
I’ve finally managed to pull together my thoughts enough to craft a review which can be found here: http://www.caribousmom.com/2011/05/21/the-convert-book-review/
I tried to find all of your reviews…and only a found a few…so if you have reviewed the book and I missed the link, please let me know!
Wendy´s last [type] ..I’m An Armchair BEA Sponsor!